When you're assessing what you should be doing for your visibility plan, the first thing you need to assess is who you are, what are your strengths + weaknesses.
So, it's a really good idea to figure out what your visibility personality type + productivity style is, in order to take advantage of your strengths in your business and delegate the aspects that are in your weakness zone .
In this episode, we're going over:
P.S. If you want to figure out what your Visibility Archetype is, take the free quiz!
When you're assessing what you should be doing for your visibility plan, the first thing you need to assess is who you are, what are your strengths + weaknesses.
So, it's a really good idea to figure out what your visibility personality type + productivity style is, in order to take advantage of your strengths in your business and delegate the aspects that are in your weakness zone .
In this episode, we're going over:
P.S. If you want to figure out what your Visibility Archetype is, take the free quiz!
Really cool when we filter and just look at organic growth on the account, you have increased 143% in impressions 116% in engagements, your total visibility and awareness are up 149% in that as well. Are you ready to get your brand seen worldwide, ready to learn the exact strategies that have made millionaires want to know the secret software's I use to save time, energy and keep things running and profitable with the minimal team. It's all here on my show, the visible entrepreneur. I'm your host, Michelle Lewis, founder of visibility vixen, after hitting the top of the charts in France, the UK, Australia, Canada, and Singapore, the visible entrepreneur is back for season four with some of the biggest names in the business. I'm asking them to spill detailed information about what made them so successful, specifically, their traffic and income generators. That way you can take notes, study the strategy that will work best for you, and see success in your own lead and revenue generation. We're all about honesty here. And I'll never stop working to get you the support you need and pushing you to give back to the planet. After all, entrepreneurs are changing the world. Welcome back to the visible entrepreneur. Thank you so much for tuning into the visible entrepreneur. today. I have a friend of mine that I am bringing in. And by the way, I just noticed after editing the past couple of edits episodes that we have like six in a row with blonde women. So we have the Battle of the blondes going on. I brought in another one for you. She's a dear friend of mine. And we have worked and collaborated together over the past year. I've learned a lot. I know she's learned a lot. So I'm really looking forward to this conversation. So Laura, welcome to the podcast. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. And yes, I am blonde and I am proud for it because blondes have more fun. Especially when they have pink walls, right? Yeah. And pink hair. Yes, you have had long hair. And that is true. Yo, Laura, before we dive into the meat and potatoes of Pinterest, I would love for you to just give a little bit of a backstory about who you are, what you do, who you help how you serve. Yeah, absolutely. So I started off as a VA, I believe about 13 years ago now. Yeah, because my oldest is 13. So 13 years ago, I started off as a VA, I got really frustrated and burnt out and I wasn't in love with what I was doing anymore. So I took time to really focus on what brought joy to not only me, but what brought results and happiness and joy to the people that I was working with. And that's where I found Pinterest and started working on it there. And it just kind of took off. And I have not looked back since. So I typically work with smaller business owners, brand creators, content creators. And what we do is we will work on visibility and steadily growing monthly revenue for these individuals. And I like to say we do it without the tantrums over tech or trading sleep for success. I do have a newborn and so trading your sleep for success is a huge part of my life that I want to make sure helps other people as well that they don't have to. Like we were just talking about reinvent the wheel right. And so I do that through different management and done for you services. I have a pin tastic course membership program, and then my amplifier coaching which is just amazing. I have had the privilege of being inside of Laura's business and being able to work on the PR side of things and see how she runs things. I've learned a lot from her she is excellent, especially at managing a team and encouraging a team and putting processes into place. So it was fun for me to work on the PR and be able to help bring some spotlight to her brand because she deserves it. And it also was really neat for me to be able to because as everyone here knows, I've been working with Pinterest for a couple years now I've been through a couple of different managers. They've all been great. But when we started working together It was cool to see a little bit more of an agency strategy brought into it. So I would love for you to share With people kind of what that journey has been of us working together, and what's been happening with my Pinterest account? Yeah, absolutely. So we've done a number of different things. I know that actually back when we started, I was just plainly trying to help you because you were helping me with PR. And I was just giving you a couple of quick tips of certain things that I saw that could help the account in terms of mine had a nosedive is having a big problem. And I was like Laura help. Yeah, in terms of just little tweaks, I mean, even with the design, or with adding keywords into certain titles, or different areas, I know that we started focusing a little bit more heavily on idea pins for you as well. So just kind of giving you those tips. And then that really just led to a deeper conversation of Okay, what else is there that we could be doing? And how can we progress it from there. And that's really what we've been focusing on. Since then, I know that you wanted to look at specific stats for you. I have in the agency, I have a graphic designer, who helps on the account, I have myself who helps, I have an assistant who will give the reports to Michelle every week, so that she is aware of what's happening on the account. And then I also have an account manager. So at any given time, she has five different people that kind of take an overview of her account. And in the past 30 days, it's been really cool when we filter and just look at organic growth on the account, you have increased 143% in impressions 116% in engagements, which engagements is not like social media, for anybody out there listening, this is actually the number of times that people click and save a pin that you have your total visibility and awareness for your total audience is up 159%. And then the engaged audience, meaning those are the people that are doing the clicks and the saves and clicking through those outbound clicks to your site. And I mean, all those different little things that happen in the backend, that is actually up as well, which is great. When you grow your audience, you want to see the engagement grow, right? And so you have are up 149% in that as well. Amazing. What's cool about this, and if you're listening to this, and you're like, wait, what Pinterest, I do want this to be a little bit more of an advanced episode, for those of you who are familiar with the platform are working for it. So you can absolutely go to past episodes, if you want to get more of a What is this? And how can I use it for my business and my funnels. And if you're listening to this, and you're going, I am familiar with the platform, and I've started using it, but I'm not really sure how to grow it or scale it. And this is going to be really beneficial for you because I had you know, a couple I think I had it like 1000 followers when we started together. And I'm trying to think of what some of the other stats were my monthly views. I think they peaked at about 96 to 100,000 a month. And I know these aren't the only indicative stats. But what I've really loved is I've watched it steadily grow. So it hasn't been like, Oh, we've had a lot of growth. And then oh my gosh, it's tanked overnight. And that's kind of what I was dealing with before. And it was really frustrating. Because I'm going okay, what do I do? So I've noticed that it's been more stable, and it's kept like it's almost like snowballing itself down the hill, which has been really exciting. So can you kind of give them some insight into when you your agency took over my account? What things that you tweaked and what you thought needed to be improved upon, which obviously has worked, because the stats are up so much. Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the biggest things was really making sure that when we were focusing on video, it's not just a moving type pin, that there's the title specific to the keywords that we wanted the upload on the video as well. We would make sure that there were specific tags that were done. And there are different tweaks and things to be able to do that. So instead of scheduling a video in tailwind, we initially schedule it in Pinterest, so that we have that extra ability for those tags to focus on the categories and the Interest where your audience actually is right now, outside of what we're putting on in the title and in the description, then we will take it and put it into tailwind and share it to the other boards, repurposing it and using it again. The other thing that we changed immediately when we started working together is a lot of the pins when we had gone to your profile, were leading to the same link over and over and over again. And this was one of the suggestions that we had talked about in email some time ago, is making sure that you interval, how often you are putting up any type of pin video idea or static pin, leading back to that specific URL, there was a big change that happened over the past, I want to say a year now that they don't like that spammy feel of putting out the same URL again, and again, and again. Regardless, if you're sharing it to different boards, they really want that what they call it is fresh content feel across the board. And they put that out loosely. So a lot of people that may have heard that term in the past are kind of, you know, disgruntled or frustrated a little bit with that, because there's no straight structure of what fresh means it's up for interpretation, the interpretation that I have given it is that you need to wait anywhere from 14 to 29 days before you share that same URL again. And then if you want to share it, again, make sure that you're doing a different graphic, a different title, a different keyword that you want to focus on a different description, because that's really what makes it that fresh content again, regardless of leading it back to that same URL. I do want to clarify, also, please don't, I mean, we're going to talk about, you know, building funnels and visibility in your pins. So if you're talking about visibility, please don't go out there and then say, Okay, how to cook in garden. If you're homesteading, right, just because you know that maybe your audience likes that as an interest. When you are leading back to the same URL. On the back end, they still do take into account the relevancy between the pin you're uploading and the landing page that you're sending them to. So creating that new image still needs to be relevant to the visibility, even if there's a sentence in that landing page that talks about cooking on a homestead, right? That's not what you want to create, just so you can get past the point of making that fresh content. That makes sense. And I think that's where kind of what we do dovetails really nicely, because where people can get frustrated, because while I'm doing all these graphics, I'm doing all these links to all of my different opt ins, and 20 blogs that I did last year. It's like that can work for a little while. But that's why it's so important to have a visibility vehicle, whether it's an ongoing blog, podcast, live streaming, streaming show, YouTube channel, etc. so that you can populate the fresh content that gives if you are, you know, outsourcing it to an agency or a manager, it gives them the ability to have that freshness to be able to keep populating that new content. So that's what I find really interesting about Pinterest as that kind of social media, kind of search engine kind of visibility vehicle in a way. It's a very flexible platform. So along with that, I would love for you to talk about the different ways that you take a client and how you maximize what Pinterest can do. Not only through pins, idea pins, maybe you talk a little bit about tailwind just whatever you think is most applicable. Yeah, for sure. I think the biggest thing that's helpful for people is talking about how to repurpose the content. So we can start with like your account. When we see that you have a new video, or we see that there's a new podcast episode out. There are a number of different ways that you can take that same content and recreate it multiple different times. For example, one podcast can be an audiogram it can be a video with just moving text, which is like an animated pin. They still consider it a video pin You can do a static pin, you can do a short video of if it was a podcast and also a video recording, take a snippet of that, keep it under 30 to 45 seconds. And there's four different types of content for that one podcast that you have. Then if you take it one step even further, you're probably posting that podcast, if it's a video, again, on Facebook, on YouTube, you're posting it on whoever hosts your podcasts, posting it as a blog, maybe have a landing page to subscribe to the podcast. And those are all different URLs as well. So now, every time you want to share, let's say, the blog where the podcast is, that's one URL, you have those four different types of fresh content, then you want to share a link to the Apple podcast where it resides, for different types of content, second URL, so you can compound that exponentially, without having to constantly say, okay, today's Monday, let's create a new podcast, today's Tuesday, let's create a new podcast, I have people that will create content once a week. And that can sustain them for an entire month. Because they're doing it strategically throughout that we can even take quotes off of a podcast and put them in as an idea pen, which is basically just structuring out multiple different slides. And putting them together, you can have anywhere from three to 20 different images or videos, and walk them through that bullet point, or that testimonial, or whatever that offer is that you want them to learn more or solve their problem on. And then again, that's just another piece of content for that one thing that you created. So I really think that people kind of miss that when they think about Pinterest. They think about one pin one URL done. Now I have to go create new. And I really think that we need to focus more on getting smarter about what have we already created? What is coming up? And how can we merge the two, right. So if you're doing live stream videos, you're doing them at least anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour or longer. In that time, 30 to 45 seconds goes a long way in terms of a video pin. Each time you have a new specific tip you give, that can be a new video pen, that could be a new static pin. So I think it's really important to think outside of the box, instead of just thinking, Okay, new content, turn and burn, turn and burn. Because there is a lot of content out there that can be relevant today that you put out there a month ago or a year ago. And then that gives you time to focus on quality over quantity in terms of the content that you're putting out. Those are such great points. And I love the fact that you can maximize your content. And you can spread it for so much longer. Because I think you're right there is a lot of pressure, a lot of stress of Okay, how many times do I have to release and it depends on your personality, right for me, yeah, weekly works really well. I like having a new episodes fresh every week, sometimes I'll take a week off or whatever for other people that is absolutely exhausting and not doable. So more of a quarterly or even a monthly strategy is much more energizing for them. But the good news is the process is still the same. Record the content in whatever format you want, but then you can break it down. And that's what's so exciting about Pinterest is especially now like when I started it was just static pins right? Now you have all these other ways that you can maximize your content, which I think is really exciting. Yeah, absolutely. It gives us a lot of opportunities as content creators to be able to go down that visibility vehicle, as you say, and and really be able to help those around us in different ways that, like you said, everybody's personality is different. So different ways that they're actually going to be relating to that content. And and go from there. Absolutely. So let's move into tailwind because I also get this question a lot people know that it's probably a scheduling platform, but they're not quite sure how to maximize it. So what are some of the tips from what you do with different accounts to make sure that you are, you know, publishing content when it needs to be really With the scheduler but also possibly maximizing communities? Yeah, absolutely. So the scheduler is really helpful because it will go specific to your audience engagement. So when people are clicking through when people are saving, and you'll be able to focus on, if you sustainably can put out one new pen a day, then you can set your schedule for that, and it will tell you the best time. So you can batch schedule. I mean, I try to teach people in less than one hour a week, right. So try to get that mode of going and schedule it out for seven days. And then you don't have to sit and focus every single day on that. If you have more content, you've been in business longer, you have more avenues, YouTube videos, podcasts, then maybe go up a little bit go five, seven times a day, I wouldn't go over 10 to 15, we're starting to see the trend where less is more right now, because they are focusing on fresh and quality. So definitely focus on that smart schedule is what they call it. And how many pins Do you want, what can be sustainable, and then it will tell you when you can schedule those times out. They also give you the opportunity to use what's called intervals. So you pick up to 10 boards that can be relevant to that one item that you're going to be pinning. And then you can interval how many days between each time it goes to those boards Do you want it to be? That's where I'm talking about, make sure it's no more than twice per month in my eyes, because then you're giving yourself time to be able to fill the gaps with other content, answer other questions, solve other problems. Once you get through it for a few months, you'll start to see it's easier to fill up the queue. Because now last month, you put out a whole month and you're coming in this month with all of that content repurposing, and now you're creating new content. So stick with it for a while. There's also communities, which is really cool. We typically go through and see two different areas. One, what pins are doing really, really well on the platform already, and share those into the communities because that is kind of like a highlight for people like, Oh, this is doing really well, what am I missing? What do I need to learn. And then we also look at what has been not doing so well on Pinterest, but maybe good in terms of organic traffic or social traffic based on the analytics. And we'll use communities to try to boost the visibility on those as well. What's really nice about communities is its go at your own pace. So you can go in one day and share to two communities, maybe skip a day or two, then go back in. Typically my agency and I we will go in every day because that is the schedule we have set. I know that's really difficult for some types of people. So just make sure you set when you can go in, and then divide how many shares to communities you have based on how often you're going to go into the account. Also be aware there are rules and communities, it is called community for a reason. So you want to make sure that you're actually actively participating, right? Don't just join a group, because you think it's gonna benefit you only join a group where you see a mutual benefit of sharing your content, and then also sharing other people's content that's going to help your audience. I know, this is also something that's kind of loosely talked about with Pinterest is do you have to do other people's content? Do you have to just do your own content? I do 99% of my own content for all my clients myself, that 1% is left for the communities, it's left for the collaboration and the reciprocation on that end. Absolutely. And communities. I mean, I was shocked when I started jumping in there because that really really helped me it I was getting so many reshares I logged in and was just floored. I was like oh my gosh, like you know that feeling you get when something finally works. And you're like it's working. It's just you know, exciting. So I think communities is a great resource, especially if you're kind of figuring things out, you're newer to the schedule, because you can get in there you can see what people are posting what's working. And then if you have really good content, people can help you make it go viral very quickly. So I think that it's wonderful. Okay, so when you are scheduling your pins to go out, there's a lot of people that are like ratio at 5050 7030, whatever. So how much content? Let's say you are releasing content weekly? How much of a percentage? Are you posting of your own pins versus other people's pins? Yes, still 99 one, okay, so I'm, I am pushing it where I want it to be 99% my own content, because the goal on Pinterest is really to help people solve the solutions that they're looking for help that lead them to that purchase that they already know they want to make. And if you're sharing 50% of your own content, and then 50% of somebody else's, that could be beneficial, but you're leading them elsewhere, they're making that decision elsewhere. And so now you've just lost out on potentially a new relationship with that person. So it's different than social media, on social media, you want that conversation? So you don't want to just be a sleazy salesperson, right? on Pinterest, they already know, they have a question they already know, they want to make a purchase. They're just looking for where that's going to happen. And they're searching for that. They're not just seeing you in their search, but they're choosing you in their search. And so that's why it really doesn't matter. Because most of the time, they're gonna find you from what they're actually searching, not from seeing just your profile. I think that's a really important distinction. Because people say to me, like, Well, why aren't you, you know, all in focused on Facebook, or Instagram or whatever. And I say those things can be beneficial. And I do distribute to those channels. But primarily, I'm focused on Pinterest, because I know, that's where the opt ins come from. That's where the sales come from. It's much harder to convert someone into a customer on Instagram or Facebook or, you know, Twitter or whatever you have it then Pinterest because they do come to that platform to search and ultimately, to buy. And I just know, from helping Laura release all these articles, what those stats are, and they're absolutely incredible. So I encourage you to go to Laura Wragge comm check out her blogs, because she really outlines this really well. You can follow her on social, whatever you want to do. But if you are curious going like is that really true? Check out the stats, because especially with the platform, Pinterest, it is so true. And I think that anyone who is leaving that on the table is leaving money on the table, because it's the one thing that I've seen that is brought in that steady growth month after month, which no other Platform No matter how much I sweat or bled dead. Yeah, for sure. And it's great because it is that long term, month after month growth, right? And that's really where it goes. Is it snowballing? Like you said in the beginning, it's, it's not going to be this overnight success, you're not going to come to the platform and all of a sudden be a millionaire. But you are going to come to the platform. And then notice those smaller wins starting to go and get bigger and bigger and bigger. I mean, even we were just talking on your stats, right? In the last 14 days, compared to the previous 14 days, you had an increase in 110%. Add To Cart views of your actual digital products. This isn't just the blog posts that we share, or the podcasts or YouTube videos. This is specific to when we link to your products, which again isn't every single day. But it speaks to people searching for that solution that they need. You were up at 8% in checkouts, right. And your average order value is hovering around $5 per visit. So I think that's really cool to see that organically. That's happening without you having to do anything like some of the pins and performance that you're getting is over time, right? There's a pin that still doing well, that we've shared back in February. And the thing so it's just it speaks volumes compared to a search feed over a social feed. Hmm. Oh, it really does. And I think that's something that I get asked a lot too is they say, well, I've been using Pinterest, I've been promoting my blogs. I'm still not seeing any opt ins or any payments. What's going on. I said, Well let me look at your blog. And then I look at the blog and I say there's no opt in and there's no button to check out like hello right but if we all have made these mistakes So I think it's important for people that are listening, like, you have to analyze every piece of the funnel, so you can see what's leaking, right. So you build your main content on your site. So it always directs back there, you make a pin that's bringing traffic to the site. Hopefully, it's not just going to the homepage, it's going to a blog or a podcast or video, whatever. But you also have to be sure to make it visual so that someone while they're listening or watching or reading, they know, oh, I can take this quiz here or grab this template. And oh, I can just jump into the membership or the course or the coaching or whatever, making that path extremely clear. And I know that that's something that you teach as well. Yep, absolutely. And that's something that we're actually putting into the membership to is making sure that the your organic plan matches with your Pinterest plan so that you can have that exponential growth, you don't have a leaky bucket, so to speak, in terms of how you're sending people through the funnel, making sure there's multiple opportunities for them to purchase from you and work with you. I get a lot of times, but how do I grow a service based business on a platform like that same way that you're going to grow a product based business, you have to have a flow, you have to lead the horse to water, right. And so just making sure that you have all those points. And then on the flip side, do a deep dive into your tracking and your analytics. We've gotten really nitty gritty recently in our agency, about even tracking our own stuff. So the navigation bar at the top of my website, making sure it has specific UTM codes, so that I know if they came from Pinterest to my homepage, are they clicking From the homepage to my case studies? Are they clicking to a product or a workshop? and try to figure out where that's happening? And how you can maximise on that. So that you know, the efforts that you're putting in on Pinterest will in the long run, continue to feed what's working already. This is why I love Laura. And do you guys have heard my visibility personality episode? I think it was last week. And so you know what the different types are? Laura is a production designer. So she has, she's a production designer, sub screenwriter, because she has an enormous heart. Absolutely. But she has this detail oriented brain. And so as you guys know, I'm a director, and it's like, I want to look at the process, make sure the process is good. And then by right, so my struggle was being able to monitor all these things and to understand them. That's why for me financially, it made the best decision or whatever you want to call it to outsource this part. And I'm going to put all that information below. You don't need to stress if you want to hire Laura and her team, you absolutely can. But if you're doing this yourself, be sure that you write down these details that you're hearing in this episode, so that you can at least get a hold of it for a few months until maybe you're starting to see results to then hand off the process or I don't know, maybe you love Pinterest, and you want to do it yourself. But these are those little keys that you're not necessarily going to hear from other agencies or managers because they are not production designer personalities. So it's just something to kind of keep in the back of your mind, which I think is a huge strength of yours, Laura. Thank you. Thank you so much. The last thing I want to talk about is one of my favorite things, which is color. People say like okay, well my brand color really make that big of a difference. And I think we have to talk about it in regards to Pinterest because Pinterest is a visual platform. And what was really fun for me is I was able to hand your team, my hex codes, my photos, my logos, and they just went nuts. And you know, when someone can design better than me, I'm just like, in love, like love for life and pay for your team to do such a beautiful job. If you guys have Pinterest on your desktop or your phone, bring it up and just scroll through the visibility vixen feed because they've done such a beautiful job. And Laura, I just want you to reflect like, how much of a difference does that make? And especially when you are handing things off to your designers like Do you notice a difference when someone comes with a really set color scheme? Yeah, so it does make a difference. It really depends on if they're able to push the line a little bit, which was really fun with you. You had a few very specific templates that you had been using. And we wanted to still be able to use those colors, but shift the layout. So when someone sees that mixture of colors, and those words, they still no it's your brand, but it can stand out differently from one layout to the next even with the same words. And so we helped kind of create different layouts, and still make it work. What's really cool is your images have your specific branding. My branding is completely different in terms of colors, we could do the same title, lead to the same place, they still will both be searched the same way. But someone who relates to yours will click and someone who relates to mine will click. So in my mind, the colors really matter in terms of your branding, in terms of your visibility, they may not matter so much in terms of the layout, because of the way Pinterest is, and the way things have changed on the platform and how boards are organized. But it definitely does matter in terms of that individual search, they pull it up, what stands out to them, what colors are you using, behind the words behind the images? How are you separating things out or pulling out the things that they need to focus on first. And that's really what's fun for us to do is someone could give us the craziest combination of colors, and we will still be able to trust me, it's been done, we've been able to make it work. And it's fun to see how it just kind of like shows up for people, right? And it, it's kind of like, um, what do they call it, where they say it's like an interruption in the pattern, like a pattern interrupts Yeah, it's the same thing on Pinterest, because you see these pastel white. I mean, they're very classical, very beautiful images. But that's not everybody's brand. And if you always see that, it's going to get lost, they're not going to read, they're just going to keep scrolling. And so to have something that is specific to you, one not only creates that interrupt, but to it creates that synergy between what they're seeing on your Pinterest profile, what they're going to get on your website, what they're going to get in your personality, and so on, and so forth. So it really helps with that relevancy with making sure that there's that strong connection right off the get go. And just kind of taking them through that path where it's like that yellow brick road, they know that if they take one step to the left, they're off and they need to come back. Exactly. It's that subconscious attraction, and then support. And I'm so glad that you said that, because I think it makes a difference. People see me on Pinterest, they're like, I know your pin, like from a mile away. I know that that's you. And I think that that's important. And it's very cohesive. And I found a big difference, since I've implemented that strategy. And you guys have implemented it with my Pinterest account. So I think that that's amazing. And it ties in perfectly. If you have that theme going on throughout the funnel, it will help them get to purchase because of the trust that happens because they know subconsciously, this is their primary brand color. I feel it here in whatever way they need support, motivation, trust, balance, whatever. And so that really helps them move through to becoming a customer. So I love that. Okay, Laura, final words of advice for people that are jumping into Pinterest growing their Pinterest strategies, what are some things that you think are unique that you can share? Yeah, I think something that's really unique, that I really like to highlight is make sure that you go and focus on what keywords are trending, use the trends.pinterest.com tool, but use it in the forefront of your content planning. So if you know that you have a podcast episode or a blog coming up that you want to focus on or a topic that you want to write about, go to Pinterest, go to trends.pinterest.com do what I call pin hacking. It's part of what I teach in one of my workshops and go through and look where can you fill answers for questions that may have been left on the table elsewhere? Look at what actual ways are these words trending because sometimes, it may not be brand visibility. Maybe it's visibility in your brand, for the phrase that's trending. So just make sure you take a second to go through that, if not once a month. I mean, I personally do it a couple times a week, because it really depends on the end user and what they're actually searching so it could change in a couple weeks. So just try to keep that in your structure, I think that will go a long way for people. And the other tip, I think is kind of one of the things that we're putting into my organic marketing amplifier program that we're building out. Is I always get, how do I know what questions they're asking? How do I know what they're searching for? There are so many different ways that you can answer that. One of the ways that I love doing it is going to answer the public. And typing in like, for me, it's visibility, Pinterest, organic marketing. I mean, inbound marketing is even considered Pinterest. And it will come up with all these different questions that people have gone to Google asking related to that topic. Those are the questions you should be answering before they even come to you. So figure out a way to use that in your content plan, so that you can then answer those questions when they're searching on Pinterest. Such a great tip. Okay, and let's wrap this up. I hear baby in the background. I want you to get to her. So I know you haven't done and I know you have agency website. So I'm going to link all that below. But what is your OPT in link just so they can jump on if they're listening? Yeah, it's Laura right comm forward slash Pinterest hyphen, marketing hyphen strategy. It is a free webinar that we are doing to go over some of these tips and tricks to really be able to make it work for yourself without having to hire an agency until you're ready. Beautiful. I will link everything below share this episode. If you loved it on Instagram and tag us both. We would love to see your biggest takeaway. In the meantime, Laura, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate you. And there's no one better I could think of to talk about Pinterest. Thank you so much. It was so fun. I hope you love this episode as much as I did. Now we're all about building a tribe here as the visible entrepreneur, so be sure to subscribe, leave a five star review and then head on over to the Facebook group. It's a great place where you can practice your video, live stream and really enjoy the community that we have built. In the meantime, I'll see you in the next episode. Now get out there and get more visible.